FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby jonathon.e » 06 Aug 2014 11:04

Body fatigue and general tiredness are not always the same, in my case, I get very tired, old age, but if my muscles are not fatigued then the general race performance isn't affected, cognitive thought may be slower but at my competitive level ( low ) isn't.

There was a large study based on sleep patterns in ATC personnel, and whether having a nap on a break did any good.
The conclusion was, that provided the nap was no longer than between 10-20 minutes, then reaction time etc was not reduced. Any longer than 20 minutes then you may as well have a couple of hours.
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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby Kevy427 » 06 Aug 2014 12:06

Jack Hughes wrote:Had to have a nap in the afternoon yesterday

That's more of an age thing than fatigue. Has your bus pass arrived yet?
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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby Jack Hughes » 06 Aug 2014 12:11

Definitely an age thing :(
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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby Jack Hughes » 06 Aug 2014 12:15

Unfortunately the bus pass is tied to pensionable age. This is moving faster away from me than the speed I am approaching at the moment.
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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby jonathon.e » 06 Aug 2014 17:40

CCS wrote:
jonathon.e wrote:I often wonder about the need to taper for races, and given the amount of training we do, are we missing out by doing too little,

I have often pondered this myself. I tend to taper by having a day off before a race.... does that count. In fact, recent PBs post race are making me wonder whether a hard evening 10 a couple of days before a race might be the optimal preparation?


Tapering is a personal thing, for the ones of us who don't stick rigidly to a training plan, but, look at time available and then fit the session to fit the time available, and the level of fatigue, and the weather, the ability to train smart, completely outclasses the need to ' go out and do a twenty mile interval session ' 'cos your training plan says so.
If I finish a shift, and feel refreshed, the weather is good, then a hard session may beckon, if I am tired, an easy swim session, if the weather is inclement, a cross country run, windy, a slow, high geared session may be required.
Likewise, m
Despite my Strava entries, my tapering is really, the number of days off before a race, and to ensure the body isn't broken, a TT a few days before to stress the muscles, but not a run. Are we forced to think like elite athletes, because of the articles published that say we need to, rather than look at it personal level, and say ' why should I '?

I see on the forum, or social media, that sometimes, the proportion of workload in, does not show a representative, results out. Is this, because as you get close to the limit of your capability, the effort to any improvement is exponentially increased, or that the body cannot adapt any further. Do we plateau, and stay there or keep searching for marginal gains ? At the detriment of other abilities.
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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby jonathon.e » 13 Aug 2014 16:19

The result on Sunday was a surprise, I had expected to be a close second, but 1min 15 secs, is pretty close.

Over the preceding couple of weeks, I looked not at how to get quicker, but how to stop myself from getting a slower time. Looking at the variables, some I could change, some I couldn't. So what did I do.

Hindsight is fine, always a what if. It is like trying to extrapolate race times for longer events, the longer the event, the greater the chance of errors, mechanicals, mistakes and third parties messing your race up.


Did kit choice have any relevance?
I try to keep racing simple, the options for the OD that were available were
a) going non wetsuit. Not an option, I am faster with, and even adding on the time it takes to take the thing off, it will be a wetsuit if I get the option.
Pyro platforms for a quick transition, my feet can manage 60 minutes without socks before the skin gets rubbed off, factor in wet trainers and it's fifty minutes, so it would be cycle shoes and trainers.
Disc or Aero wheels. This was only decided on race morning. If it was undulating then it would have been aero wheels, but even with the forecast high winds ( a tornado was seen in Hull that day ) it would be a disc.

The bike was roughly what I had expected, and T2 only marginally slower by a few seconds, so maybe I lost a couple of seconds.

Did race tactics have any relevance
Yes, I deliberately took the bike conservatively, RPE normally at 9, pulled back to 7 maybe 8 at times, this was to get a better run time, if the weather had been better, I may have been tempted to push the bike, which would have seen a severe blow up on the run.
The run was pushed as fast as I could go to sustain a run and not walk at any time, there were occasions when running through puddles or different terrain, I felt my HR rise, and knew I would have to pull it back, so I couldn't have gone quicker. Pleased with the time.
The Chip Time company StuWeb, have a nice archive, so you can tap in the athlete and get results going way back, you may find my Scarborough OD times in there somewhere.

Did pre race training ( used loosely ) have any relevance.

This is where the time came from, I did drop,a couple of hints on Strava, and FB, regarding what I was doing, but maybe they were too subtle.
Training early in the morning, before breakfast, going for a ride or run, and seeing how far it would be before the knock came calling, going for rides and taking fluid but never using it, to see again how long I could sustain the pace. A sentence, maybe placed in jest, telling me that the footsteps behind me when I stopped at the aid station would be my opposition, so it would be, no water, no stopping, no worries.
If I drank during the bike, it would mean leaving the aero position, lose momentum, speed, maybe a couple of seconds each time, say five gulps, fifteen seconds in total lost on the bike.
A drink in transition, 5 seconds,
And then the run, two aid stations, one at 5km, one at 7.5km, slow down, drink, tip water over head, fifteen seconds at each.

So 50 secs spent on fluid, take a gel, maybe one on the bike, or as you leave transition, 10 seconds. Now it is 60 seconds spent on nutrition and fluid. With the time gap of 75 seconds, this would now be 15, if not less.
The times are speculative, the need for fluid and nutrition can vary, when the race can be own or lost in seconds, maybe looking at stopping yourself from going slower, can have a bonus, rather than trying to go quicker.
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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby Jack Hughes » 13 Aug 2014 17:37

Sounds fine on paper, but in practice....


If you compare our times, at the points where I drank (3 times in total, coming out of the turns), our speeds where identical. Where I lost time was into the head winds. I was riding on effort, you were maintaining a constant speed. I took gels on the run, after 5 minutes and 20, and not in T2. I did mess about with turning on (and off) my light, and putting shoes on.

Let's compare you against Richard Howarth, or also did the event last year (he's always there or there abouts).


2013:

Swim: He did 16:46 in 2013, 17:16 this year.

You did 24:15 in 2013, 25:15 this year - a drop back, but not much different to Richard's.


Bike: He did 56:45 in 23, 01:02:15 this year. A huge drop - probably indicative of the weather.

You did 01:03:48 in 2013, 01:04:51 - a drop back, but compared to Richard, a huge increase.

But the key thing is the run

Last year, Richard did 39:30, and 40:55 this year. Again, probably reflecting the conditions.

While last year, you did 1:03:43, and this year you did 54:40!!!!! An absolutely massive improvement.


Your transition times last year were 01:40 and 01:28. This year 01:44 and 01:32

I don't see any evidence of "saving seconds". I see lots of evidence in a phenomenal run improvement.


There is also no way you were anything but the favourite on paper. You had, for you, a bad swim in the sprint, even with that bad swim (a minute ahead of me), a simple projection out showed you with a lead.

Scaling up from the swim showed you at 31:06, me at 33:22. The swim may have been a bit long - I was 2 minutes quicker than predicted, but your were 6. So, again, a big improvement over the sprint.

Cycling - 1:04:52 for you, 01:05:45. A second out for you, a minute quicker for me - but I rode intentionally conservatively.

The run was interesting - predicted a 54:34 for you, and a 52:00 for me. You were about bang on, I was a bit quicker - as I planned to be from the conservative bike and hammering the run.


In general though, your running this year has been absolutely great.. you've been far far closer to me than might have been expected.


Ps. My T2 time was about the same as in the sprint, T1 slower - where I messed up the shoes, the number and fiddled with the light. Nutrition wasn't a factor!
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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby jonathon.e » 11 Sep 2014 19:27

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I Jon.E. saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

So, what next ?
More of the same ? Most probably, the hardest part of this years Battles, were the logistics,usually, I just choose races that happen on my days off ( once in a Blue Moon ), or end up racing in the morning, then racing to work for the afternoon shift, but this years races were logistically hard for me to fit in, occasionally. So next years, will be back to the old, as and when system.
I did harbour an idea of seeing how close to AG qualification I could get, but I was outside the limit for the ITU race in Sweden next year. As the Sundowner was the ideal course for me, I failed to deliver a performance that I would be happy to qualify with. This is more a personal ideology, rather than a set methodology, if I am not happy, then it is just half arsed, and lacks commitment by myself, glass half empty etc.

If I had succeeded, then the winters training, and next years races could have some structure, which is lacking at the moment, the end of the season has just seen me crippled with a bad back, probably kicked off on the bike course on Saturday, and finished off by an inter village Tug'o war contest. The spasms have died off now, to leave a rather sore lumbar area that feels like it is getting a kick from a cow every couple of minutes. Give it a couple of weeks.

The winter may see me try to improve my running, that would be nice, to get even close to my old times without a drop in bike and swim times, is as good a goal as anything.
Try to improve on going uphill, improve on going downhill.
No point in putting times, tried that before, and failed miserably.

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And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
....
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."
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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby jonathon.e » 14 Sep 2014 19:41

Sorry to inform one and all, but it's that time of year, race season over and I start to put non sensical ramblings in my training blog, which are blatantly borrowed and rewritten from others. So sit back grab another choccy hobnob.

Cyclists will generally fall into various classifications according to whichever tabloid paper has written about them, MAMILs, hippies, ignorant self centred road hogging blight on the environment ( New Forest Bugle), but what groups do cyclists aspire to, roadies, testers, challenge cyclists, climbers, rouleurs etc, and to what rules or codes do they adhere to, one would like to think the Highway Code is one, I did say. ' would like to think ', and what of the other rules, those of the a Velominatti and those of the OREC, so which one would you pigeon hole yourself into ?

Mild embellishments aside, it is clear that we had two competing sets of ‘The Rules.’ Mine, which, obviously, I and many others believe to be superior, are that of OREC, which is the Official Rules of the Euro Cyclist (https://www.facebook.com/the.official.rules/info). Followers of OREC know that there is one primary concern of a cyclist, and so it is expressed in the first of 63 rules:

‘1. Image and style shall be the primary concerns of the Euro Cyclist. When suffering, one must focus first on maintaining a cool, even composure and second on performance. Winning races is an added talent, and only counts if said Euro Cyclist wins with appropriate style.’

Image being the primary concern, the Lord and Prophet of the good people of OREC is of course, the one and only Mario Cipollini, whom is imperious in such matters.

The other rival faction is the Velominati, a group that OREC would simply refer to in the same breath as the dreaded triathletes (Whom followers of OREC swear to never associate with) – they may claim to be following cycling’s ‘rich and complex’ history, but they are far, far from it. One of their founders is called Brett, and another has a picture of one of those stupid little dogs wearing a wig. Would you take advice from a man who puts a wig on a dog? No, you wouldn’t. The Velominati, or the ‘Keepers of the Cog’ as they brand themselves, which is silly, as every OREC member knows that cogs do not exist, but sprockets and blocks do, have a far more boring rule 1:

To help you see the differences between our sects, I will now summarise the key differences between OREC and the Velominati, based on who their particular heroes might be. OREC, of course, venerates the Lord Mario, whom has a special ability to transcend the rules that ban mass produced garbage bikes such as Specialised, Trek and the like, and is thus concerned majorly with style, essence, prestige and other noble, lofty concepts that cannot be grasped – OREC is the pursuit of the soul of cycling, and of the near supernatural, Godly aura that surrounds and mystifys it. Velominati, on the other hand, would worship Bradley Wiggins, because they are truly unconcerned with appearance. Black is their colour of choice, which speaks volumes, as it the colour of death, darkness, despair and great sorrow, whilst OREC uses white, the symbol of light, freedom, justice and the like. Wiggins also loves his numbers, and has an odd penchant for winning races regardless of how terrible he looks on the bike, whilst Cipollini would gladly stop if he knew that suffering were to become embossed across his features in the effort of winning.
So to truly dissect between the two, here is a brief summary of attitudes to various parts of cycling, illustrated by the Rules of each faction, with some brief summary.

On Training

Velominati: Rule 5//Harden the f*ck up, Rule 71//Train Properly – Know how to train properly and stick to your training plan.

OREC: 2. Training shall be based solely on feel, while racing shall be guided by sensations and instinct: that is to say, “soul.” The Euro Cyclist will never accept tried or tested scientific training methods.

OREC would look at the Velominati and ask simply ‘training plan?! There’s a plan?!’. Why should plans be used when sensations are far superior, and guide you to a higher plane of being? And what is this ‘science’ that seems to be being applied by the Velominati? Everyone knows science is for those damned triathletes.

On Racing

Velominati: Rule 70//The Purpose of competing is to win.

OREC: 1: Winning races is an added talent, and only counts if said Euro Cyclist wins with appropriate style. 49. When dropping out of a race, one shall avoid the embarrassment of entering the official broomwagon and shall instead wait for the team vehicle. When asked the reason for dropping out, one shall cite mechanical problems or oncoming sickness.

Clearly, OREC wins again. Winning effort requires talent. Looking like Ron Burgundy requires effort. Effort can be achieved easily, by, er using the required amount. You can use all the talent you have, but still not attain the same level as some one more talented then yourself. Thus, it is more charming and more suave to simply preserve ones image, by ensuring everyone is completely unsure how much talent you are hiding.

Velominati: Rule 4//It’s all about the bike, Rule 8// Saddle, bars and tires shall be carefully matched: black, black and black, Rule 26// Make your bike photogenic.

OREC: 9. One’s bike frame shall contain between two (2) and four (4) colours IN ADDITION TO WHITE. All colours are acceptable as long as they combine tastefully and elegantly. In addition, wheel selection must also match frame and fork. 17. Saddles shall be white in colour ONLY and shall be manufactured in Italy or France. Exceptions may be made in the following cases: i) Saddles containing World Cup Stripes or Olympic Gold when it is EARNED ii) Italian flag colour combo when rider is ITALIAN (born in Italy) 18. Handlebar tape is required to be cork as well as WHITE IN COLOUR. Bar tape shall be kept in pristine white condition. This state shall be achieved either through daily cleansing or through frequent replacement. These jobs must NEVER be performed by the cyclist as one must maintain one’s image. 22. Campagnolo shall be THE ONLY acceptable component and it is hereby deemed superior to ANY Shimano product in ALL circumstances and situations. The Euro Cyclist is expected to have nothing less than an ENTIRE campy g ruppo. Crank substitutions are NOT permitted.

Ooh err, Velominati, that Rule 4 sounds awfully close to a certain unpopular Texan. And Black, the colour, as previously mentioned, of death, despair and great sorrow?! Let’s face it, Velominati members are essentially lazy. They want their bikes as dark as possible so that they don’t have to bother cleaning the thing after they ride through the grimy London suburbs and upload rides to Strava. OREC, on the other hand, takes image seriously, and so wants a colour that will show up any fault or imperfection in their equipment immediately. White is thus the perfect adornment, as it allows the effort which the rider has put into keeping their machine in glistening condition to be best displayed. Worryingly, Velominati, make no mention of equipment, whilst OREC has an entire list of endorsed components and apparel. Obviously Campag is paramount, as Italy is clearly better then the mass produced Japanese Shimano nonsense. It’s Italian for Lord Mario’s sake – it has soul. And that’s all you need, right?
On Kit

Velomonati: Rule 14//Shorts should be black, Rule 15// Black shorts should be worn with leaders jerseys, Rule 17//Team kit is for members of the team

OREC: 7. Cycling shoes shall contain at least 80% white, 8. If white cycling shoes are not available where the Euro Cyclist resides, white booties (or “shoe covers”) with prominent logos shall ALWAYS be worn. 44. When appearing in a photo spread for a sponsor’s products, the Euro Cyclist has the option of appearing fully nude, in team kit, or in a full Brioni three-piece suit (nothing else). Smiling is PROHIBITED in these instances. 16. Kits must always be freshly washed, and one shall ALWAYS have applied a subtle quantity of eau de toilette (or “cologne”). It is, AT ALL TIMES FORBIDDEN to ride in an unwashed kit. This is severely detrimental to one’s image.

A typical discussion on the OREC site will revolve around the appealing combination of a leaders jersey with standard team shorts, and will bemoan anything other then a matching set, as well as bashing those teams who persist in the evils of black shorts. This is of course what brought the Velominati to my attention, and their rules, which ban team kit from being worn by mere mortals, are an abomination. Cycling is about inspiration, sensation, and feeling. Should I be denied the chance to dream and emulate my heroes through the donning of their threads and tunics and thus imagining myself soaring across the same passes as they have crossed because some bloke who puts wigs on dogs decides that black shorts are the way forward and that only the physical, tangible realities of the world are to be allowed?! I say nay.

Which pro's go into where ?

There are no rules as such for this, but here is a list of appropriate people that each group would choose as exemplary of their codes

Velominati: Bradley Wiggins, Chris Froome, Ryder Hesjedal, David Millar, Mark Cavendish, Cadel Evans, Tom Danielson, Jens Voigt.

OREC: Mario Cipollini, Thomas Voeckler, Tom Boonen, Fabian Cancellara, Alexandre Vinokourov, Phillipe Gilbert, Vincenzo Nibali, Paolo Bettini, Fillipo Pozzatto, Giovanni Visconti, Alejandro Valverde, Alberto Contador.


So what is the best way of summing the two up? It’s simple really. The Velominati are saddly stuck in the real world, a cold, hard, sterile world driven by numbers, figures, burning and a fear of failure that properls them to venerate the lovers of data and marginal gains which give them a sense of achievement and progress. They are thus able to proceed along a path on their set of rules to full attainment, and can actively try to do so without being looked down upon by their peers.

OREC however is not something you can acitvely try to achieve, at least not consciously. As we’ve all found out to our embarrassment, style is either something you have or you dont. OREC is about ensuring ones style is properly embellished and promulgated, and about helping cyclists experience the true, ethereal and ungrapsable beauties of the sport that Velomonati does not even recognise. Buying a white bike and shoes won’t make you Euro, but a unconscious consideration and long spiritual experience of its teaching will. You can become an Velominati overnight, but to be one with OREC, that takes time. And that is far more beautiful.
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Re: FROM THE TEA ROOMS OF MARS TO THE HELL HOLES OF URANUS!

Postby Jack Hughes » 14 Sep 2014 19:45

From enough distance, they are both essentially the same
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